Posts by Anders Andersen

90

New DNA Study Confirms Noah

by notsurewheretogo in

http://www.icr.org/article/9325/.

amazing read...go on , have a laugh if you want to.. new dna study confirms noah.

by brian thomas, m.s.

Anders Andersen

For those who believe the Bible to be true:

The Bible is not evidence of anything. The Bible is a set of claims.
Just like any other writing.
Yes, even science books and research papers are just claims, not evidence!

So what is the big difference?

The Bible leaves it at just claims. It presents no verifiable evidence to support the claims.
Scientific writings present evidence: they point to verifiable processes, events, objects, phenomena to show the claims made are not just made up, but have a solid foundation.

Anyone who ever says "evidence found in the Bible" or "evidence found in this science book" doesn't understand the difference between a claim and evidence.

Example:
I write a (admittedly short) book. It says: "Send Anders Andersen all your money, and you'll live forever".
You might ask me: how do I know this to be true?
I answer you: Look, the evidence is here in my book! Can't you see?
You: Oh I see now. It's really true! Here's all my money! Yay, eternal life!

61

Demon possesion, bunch of crap or?

by raven in

i've been using the forum to vent and post a lot more frequently lately as a venting purpose & way to obtain peace of mind with the craziness i've been going through recently as i fade away form the org.

anyways today i'm sitting here at work and thinking to myself about demons... ok i know this sounds crazy but has anyone else out there been traumatized by the thought of demons?

i had a dream the other night, just flat out spooky and i woke and couldn't help but feeling it may have been evil ole' satan and his demons at it again.. i don't want to believe that, (trying not to, & just brushing it under the rug so to speak) but have any of you out there been talked up about demons?

Anders Andersen

On another (general topic) forum I have encountered an active JW while answering JW question in a 'less propaganda, more facts' way.

We started a discussion, which turned into a long, ongoing (and pleasant) conversation about all kinds of topics.
This kind person really wants so save me (his lost brother)...but of course he has trouble swaying an atheist as there is no evidence for God's existence.

So he asked me if I would be willing to see some videos that prove demons exist. Because if demons, then angels and God. He was quite hesitant, fearing that I might be pulled into the dark side of demon possession by these videos, or that I would be bullied by them at least.

I expected exorcisms, possessed people, and the like.
What I got was this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI7uHI1x09A&list=PLDECA889975B1C648
A series of magician performing illusions, edited together with some comments to 'prove' demons did it.
I have painstakingly researched each illusion, gave him thorough analysis how the illusions are (or could be) done, and included the links to where he could buy most of the props needed.

Still he insists that some of the illusions must be done by demons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fWVAN0Er_4 is the final one, where demons must be doing the changing, or at least slow down time(!). Unfortunately for him, there is a perfectly natural explanation.

JW attribute all kinds of perfectly normal events to demons, and the rest to God.

Scary stuff = demons
Bad stuff = Satan
Nice stuff = JW
Good stuff = Jesus/God

Something bad happens: this proves demons/Satan exist!
Something good happens: this proves God exist!

No arguing with that perfect logic.

28

I'm getting disfellowshipped

by raven in

hi everyone, a bit of an update here on my continuing disaster of a situation.. (refer to my previous posts for the full story) my mom met with me yesterday for dinner, it was nice.. however, she brought up the fact that because i live with my boyfriend and how everything has gone down, i will be disfellowshipped.. i think the elders basically have enough proof of this.. due to the anonymous tipper (still have no clue who it was, i live in another town 100's of miles away from my old congregation territory), and my mom telling them.

i'm not sure when they will announce it, or if they will contact me prior.. at this point i feel so emotionally dead i don't care- on the other hand, i don't want to be disfellowshipped because i do not want to loose a relationship with my mom.

that is the whole reason i tried fading out.. .

Anders Andersen

Dear raven,

I'm very sorry to hear this is happening to you. It sucks big time. Take your time in processing this.

Be sad. Be angry. Don't act upon these emotions. Don't do or decide anything you can't turn back.

In the end you'll be able to accept that sometimes we are victims of a situation. We can't control what other people do, but we can control our own actions.

Keep your head high. The darkness will disappear...

Big hug.

96

New Shunning Video - RC 2016

by wifibandit in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g20rww_-7ua.

Anders Andersen

Thanks for sharing.

Just...wow. Cult.

Dad tells his daughter she can't live in the house anymore, yet they still spin it as her fault.

At least they are admitting that parents refusing to be in contact with their own children are causing a lot of pain.

I hope this video will go as viral as the anti gay one....but probably it won't..

51

Help needed: transgender people and other unclear topics

by TeaBiscuit in

first of all, i am not quite sure whether this is the right place to ask my questions.

if this is not really appropriate, please tell me in advance, but i really did not know who to turn to, so i thought why not ask the internet... now, i know many of you are apostates and i'm not really looking for "leave it all behind you" answers, but really for experiences, thoughts and ideas... as well as maybe some verses if you can think of any.. anyway, first things first.

since this is very anonymous and i'd like to keep it that way, i will not give you my name, but still, i think some background info might be helpful.

Anders Andersen

@TeaBiscuit,

I'm impressed by the way you handle yourself in this discussion, responding to and valueing all input, even when it might contradict your personal convictions.

I have been a true JW for 35 years, and left less than a year ago. My experience is that discussions like this (about subjects that really matter) are not possible with JW. My JW friends almost all go in full denial mode and say 'you are parroting apostates' when any arguments against JW doctrine or policies, the Bible or God are brought up.

I left JW because I found out I have been lied to regarding evolution, and it's impossible to be a JW and question literal creation. It's not even allowed to openly discuss the possibility of evolution being true.

If you value freedom of speech and thought, JW might be an inconvenient choice for a religion (and this is stated as politely as possible).

90

New DNA Study Confirms Noah

by notsurewheretogo in

http://www.icr.org/article/9325/.

amazing read...go on , have a laugh if you want to.. new dna study confirms noah.

by brian thomas, m.s.

Anders Andersen

What fault can be found with Dr. Jeanson's research?
Where is he in error?

His research is not scientific. In science, one is supposed to look at all available evidence, and draw conclusions from that evidence.

Dr. Jeanson starts with a conclusion (being: Genesis creation account is literal fact), and tries to make some available evidence fit in his prematurely concluded story.

Any 'scientist' who quotes Bronze Age writings as evidence of some species not being related is a quack.

51

Help needed: transgender people and other unclear topics

by TeaBiscuit in

first of all, i am not quite sure whether this is the right place to ask my questions.

if this is not really appropriate, please tell me in advance, but i really did not know who to turn to, so i thought why not ask the internet... now, i know many of you are apostates and i'm not really looking for "leave it all behind you" answers, but really for experiences, thoughts and ideas... as well as maybe some verses if you can think of any.. anyway, first things first.

since this is very anonymous and i'd like to keep it that way, i will not give you my name, but still, i think some background info might be helpful.

Anders Andersen

@TeaBiscuit,

Although I don't know anyone who is transgender and I am not transgender myself this seemed extremely cruel to me.[...]
And since this particular handling of a situation seemed just plainly wrong to me I started asking myself if there might be other things that are not as they should be

I think this shows you're a reasonable person, who is caring for his/her fellow human beings. Taking their feelings into account. So, I present to you some Bible verses that may help you with your decision.

These verses show you how much Jehovah cares about the feelings of human beings. You can do the math on the transgender question yourself. If you think forcing a person to live according to his/her biological gender is cruel, read on.

Please look the verses up in your own Bible. Read them.
Try to identify yourself or someone you love (especially sister or daughter if you have those) with the subjects in the verses.
Keep in mind who supposedly invented these laws quoted: Jehovah.

Raped girls are forced to marry their rapist
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her. (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NAB)
Prisoners of war can be forced to marry (aka raped)
“When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. [...] However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion.” (Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)
Humans can be traded like cattle
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
Female slaves can be forced to marry (aka raped)
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. [...] And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife.[...] (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
Slaves may be severely beaten as long as they don't die the same day
When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
People with mutilated or defective sex organs are not as acceptable to Jehovah as other people are
“No man who has been castrated by having his testicles crushed or who has had his male organ cut off may come into the congregation of Jehovah. (Deut 23:1)
Ugly people and people with various other defects are not as acceptable to Jehovah as other people are
18 If there is any man who has a defect, he may not approach: a man who is blind or lame or has a disfigured face* or one limb too long, 19 a man with a fractured foot or a fractured hand, 20 a hunchback or a dwarf,* or a man with an eye defect or eczema or ringworm or damaged testicles.+ (Lev 21:18-20)

Yes, there's more where this is coming from.
Remember, Jehovah does not change!

And in case you reason "this was normal in ancient times, Jehovah just regulated (bad) human customs": The Israelites had multiple laws to were intended to set them apart from the rest of the world: keep the Sabbath, don't cut your beard, blue ribbon and fringes in your clothes, don't eat blood, etc.
Why not respect basic human right and give laws that forbid rape, slavery, discrimination, and others abuse?

If you're really worried about how Watchtower and God think about transgenders, maybe the verses above give you an idea about the morals of your God.

Apparently He doesn't really care about the feelings of human beings, and destroyed lives are not His concern. At least He doesn't care about women and people with 'defects' much, and men are not his concern when the are POW or slaves.

Or maybe it's just all ancient human laws, that really have no divine origin...

19

disfellowshipped wife, husband still a jw

by thereishope in

i'm new here and haven't introduced myself yet, but have been lurking for the past couple of weeks and learned so much!

quick first question: if i get disfellowshipped for researching info on websites other than jw.org (the official website), how can i expect to be treated by my husband still in the truth?

ie what will he be told by the elders about how to treat me?

Anders Andersen

Most likely your husband (as 'head of the family') will be told to reason with you until you quit doing 'spiritually dangerous' sites like this.

That's most likely all.

Of course your husband will have his own reaction. You know him better than we do (I hope :-))

9

What about hermaphrodites?

by neat blue dog in

a recent post about transgender people made me think.

i think its obvious that transgenders and homosexuals are easily banned in jwdom because the people in question were clearly born with their respective sex organs.. however.

what about intersex people aka hermaphrodites?

Anders Andersen

Copy-paste from my answer on the transgender thread. Person described had (incomplete) external sex organs of both genders.

I personally know of someone who was raised as a boy (external sex organs indicated as much), felt more like a woman during puberty, and (after chromosome testing) turned out to actually be a woman biologically.
Only after producing the test results she was permitted/ordered by Bethel to be a woman from now on. Oh, a corrective surgery (removing the man-like parts) was also done (possibly because Bethel 'encouraged' it).
Imagine this person would have been a guy by chromosomes, but still identified as a woman? Instant disfellowshipping! Or she would have to act like a man, and lie to herself the rest of her JW life.

51

Help needed: transgender people and other unclear topics

by TeaBiscuit in

first of all, i am not quite sure whether this is the right place to ask my questions.

if this is not really appropriate, please tell me in advance, but i really did not know who to turn to, so i thought why not ask the internet... now, i know many of you are apostates and i'm not really looking for "leave it all behind you" answers, but really for experiences, thoughts and ideas... as well as maybe some verses if you can think of any.. anyway, first things first.

since this is very anonymous and i'd like to keep it that way, i will not give you my name, but still, i think some background info might be helpful.

Anders Andersen

Male JW will be 'counseled' when their clothing style, hair, speech or manners are 'too feminine'.

Female JW will be 'counseled' when their clothing style, hair, speech or manners are 'too masculine'.

'Counseled' means to be coercively talked to until you either give in, or can be reproved for disregarding the elders' authority.

I'm not even talking cross dressing here. Just a female with very short hair who (mostly) wears pants and shirts will be viewed and treated as spiritually weak.

Or a male with soft voice and many delicate gestures (think Prince).

Anybody who deviates from the norm as portrayed in the pictures in the literature will be looked down upon.

And yes, your biological gender determines how you should act and be dressed.

I personally know of someone who was raised as a boy (external sex organs indicated as much), felt more like a woman during puberty, and (after chromosome testing) turned out to actually be a woman biologically.

Only after producing the test results she was permitted/ordered by Bethel to be a woman from now on. Oh, a corrective surgery (removing the man-like parts) was also done (possibly because Bethel 'encouraged' it).

Imagine this person would have been a guy by chromosomes, but still identified as a woman? Instant disfellowshipping! Or she would have to act like a man, and lie to herself the rest of her JW life.

And yes, it's a cult. Run.

Be religious with a different group if you must. Maybe a group that actually worships God instead of the Governing Body. But you know that already)